Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824361)

I owned a Bersa Thunder .380 for a total of ONE frustrating day several years ago, it was a jam-o-matic. I've also heard good things about the Bersa, but my personal experience did not live up to the hype.

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824343)

Skip the Walther... buy a Sig P232 instead. Almost identical design and styling, but RELIABLE.

Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1824534)

Try the Sig forum...

http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=674608412

If you want reliability, try the Glock. MANY choices. Cheaper than the Sig by about thirty percent or more, depending on which caliber and what size and how popular a Glock it is.

To do research on Glocks, try the Glock Talk forum...

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/index.php

I just ordered a pair of G22 rtf's...

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824545)

No Glocks in .380 - at least none that can be legally imported into the U.S. Also, none with the slim profile or "dashing good looks" of the PPK or P232 that are being discussed.

Originally Posted by livtocruz (Post 1824565)

What I am looking for is a mid range semi with good stopping power. Don't care about looks.What I want is great personal protection for a THTF scenario.

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824574)

OK... then let's leave this "PPK" and P232 nonsense behind.

The BEST guns you will find that embody the qualities you are looking for (assuming concealability is one of your desires, based on your PPK starting point) are (in order of increasing price) the Glock 19, Sig P228, or the H&K P2000 V3 (9mm). I wouldn't personally consider anything else.

Yes... you can go with something larger caliber (.40 or .45), but the "stopping power" increase will be marginal at best - and you will lose magazine capacity, lighter-weight and smaller gun, ease of re-acquiring the target after your last shot, and low-cost readily available ammunition.

Just my opinion - after much research and handgun ownership (I've bought and sold over 150 handguns in my life, and I'm STILL looking for the perfect one - but the above 3 are probably as close to "perfect" as I'm likely to get, each for its own reason!).

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824545)

No Glocks in .380 - at least none that can be legally imported into the U.S. BY CIVILIANS at this time. Also, none with the slim profile or "dashing good looks" of the PPK or P232 that are being discussed.

Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1824590)

Glock 28 can DEFINITELY be imported for LEO and military. But for us civi's, no. At least not right now.

BUT, the P232 is only 2.15 ounces lighter at 17.6 ounces unloaded than the Glock 26 at 19.75 ounces. But the Baby Glock carrys three more rounds than the 232 in 9mm (not a round I would carry, but that's not for this discussion as neither would I carry a .380, regardless of manufacture).

The Baby Glock is ACTUALLY shorter than the P232 (BG is 6.29 vs 232's 6.6 inches), and the BG is actually not as tall as the P232 (BG is 4.17 vs 232's 4.70 inches) and they are close to the same width, though again the Baby Glock is .02 inches narrower than the P232 (BG is 1.18 vs 232's 1.20 inches). And the G26 IS a nice looking subcompact that actually carries more ammo and is SMALLER than the P232. The only reason the Baby Glock weighs more is BECAUSE the mag holds three more rounds. Not a bad thing in my opinion. Don't even get me STARTED about .380 - I haven't seen any of that for what seems like FOREVER... glad I don't own any handguns for that cartridge any more! :)

No offense, but don't be talking about things that you don't know about.

Check it out for yourself...

Glock you have to click on the G 26 under models and then click on Technical data, but it's all there.

Sig you have to click on Specifications and the P232 info is all there.

Gaillo,
You had me right up until you said 'readily available ammo'... .40 S&W, sure. 9mm or .45 acp, not so much. I got a full case of .40 but only three boxes of 9mm last week at Wally World (the 9 was for a buddy of mine who is currently out of town).

Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1824613)

G,
Consider yourself lucky.

While the .40 ammo was a tad more expensive than the 9mm ($24 vs $20 for 100 in WWB), we can't seem to get it in. Though I did see a guy at the last gun show that had UMC 250 round value packs for $75, which IS a great deal.

The Walmarts around here in Denver are out of EVERYTHING but some .40 and occasionally .38 special.

But it's also why I mentioned the G26 in 9mm. Everything is about perspective, yes?

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824604)

Wallew,
I actually DID know about the Military/Police import exception for the Glock 25 and 28, but I figured the original poster was probably NOT qualified for either (based on his questions) and didn't think it important to bring up an exception that most of us will not be able to take advantage of.

As for 9mm availability, in my area it is exactly opposite yours - I haven't seen .40 S&W or .45 ACP at any of my 3 area Walmarts for almost 9 months now - and they didn't have any on Friday... but 9mm is (and was, throughout the "dry spell") stacked up - even in 100 round "value packs". I still own a few .40S&W guns and one .45, so it would be NICE to finally see some - but my 9mm's seem to be the only handguns I can get a decent amount of practice with lately. Based on my own experiences (which are the only ones I can use as a basis for posting...) 9mm is the only "readily available" handgun cartridge in my neck of the world. Don't EVEN get me started about .380 ACP - it seems like FOREVER that I've seen any of that available anywhere... makes me glad I don't own any handguns chambered for that cartridge at this point! :)

Originally Posted by steyr_m (Post 1824441)

I agree with Gaillo, a Sig P232 might be the better choice. Remember, you get what you pay for. You want it to go bang every time you pull the trigger. Revolvers don't have the cool factor of pistols; but don't by-pass them.... there's no safety to worry about, no jams, etc. That would be my carry weapon. I'd personally use the spurless Ruger SP101.

Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1824827)

The PA63 is LESS than $200, made to milspec for the Romanian police and is a fine pistol.

Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1824827)

As a former owner of a WW2 Nazi marked GI-bringback Walther PP and a Nazi marked Mauser HSC, I can tell you that the premium that you will pay for a Walther will be terrible...The ballistics of the .32 are terrible as well. The only thing that makes them unique is the fact that they are the quintessential German officer's pistol as well as Bond's gun...To buy one to carry would be foolish.

If you want a smallish pistol in the size range of the PPK, then as another poster said, your best bet would be to get a Makarov or a lightweight alloy PA-63. Both are 9mm Makarov and are easily convertable to 9mm parabellum.

The PA63 is LESS than $200, made to milspec for the Romanian police and is a fine pistol.

By the way, I "love to cruise too...We just got back from our fourth cruise....Eastern Carribean this time.

Here's the PA63:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7...xico035jf3.jpg

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1824574)

OK... then let's leave this "PPK" and P232 nonsense behind.

The BEST guns you will find that embody the qualities you are looking for (assuming concealability is one of your desires, based on your PPK starting point) are (in order of increasing price) the Glock 19, Sig P228, or the H&K P2000 V3 (9mm). I wouldn't personally consider anything else.

Yes... you can go with something larger caliber (.40 or .45), but the "stopping power" increase will be marginal at best - and you will lose magazine capacity, lighter-weight and smaller gun, ease of re-acquiring the target after your last shot, and low-cost readily available ammunition.

Just my opinion - after much research and handgun ownership (I've bought and sold over 150 handguns in my life, and I'm STILL looking for the perfect one - but the above 3 are probably as close to "perfect" as I'm likely to get, each for its own reason!).

Originally Posted by tojaktoty (Post 1825086)

I'd agree with your recommendations. The HK P2K is nice. Note the older P7 models as well: PSP, P7M8, P7M13

I think the P7 family is more easily concealable, effective, and robust than the PPK.

Originally Posted by tojaktoty (Post 1825086)

I'd agree with your recommendations. The HK P2K is nice. Note the older P7 models as well: PSP, P7M8, P7M13

I think the P7 family is more easily concealable, effective, and robust than the PPK.

Originally Posted by Waylon (Post 1824897)

Does anyone else besides me have any concerns about leaving your empty casing lying around on the ground after the show?

I like the small, hammerless (relatively cheap) revolvers. Point weapon, pull trigger, walk away leaving nothing but the bullet in the target behind. Only down side is fewer shots (which may be a big downside depending on your circumstances). Still, nice to be able to walk away in the future without leaving behind evidence.

Besides, I have not been "cool" for a some time now.

Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1825438)

Indeed! I almost added the P7 as a 4th option, but have you priced them lately? I found one locally about 3 months ago, they wanted $1,700 for it! I remember when you could buy them for $500, and still kick myself for not picking up a pair. I have a friend who owns a P7 (can't recall the variant... but it is one of the single-stack 9mm's), and I can't find a single thing bad to say about it (other than the frames DO tend to get pretty hot after shooting a few mags rapid-fire!). For a PPK sized pistol, the P7 is definitely the top of the heap!